Replies (8)
2
Valenorious ●
5 years ago
Have you compared the conversion rates for stone to Fe,Si,Ni,Gravel in the survivalkit and basic refinery? Once there is a basic refinery aside from the survivalkit in the grid you'd want the basic one to have priority. Havent tested the large refinery yet.
Have you compared the conversion rates for stone to Fe,Si,Ni,Gravel in the survivalkit and basic refinery? Once there is a basic refinery aside from the survivalkit in the grid you'd want the basic one to have priority. Havent tested the large refinery yet.
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1
Robert Barbarino ●
5 years ago
No denying the basic and regular refinery have greater conversion rates, but since the survival kit is available for small grids I can see having one on a deep heavy haul miner and it would be beneficial to put it to work refining stone enroute.
No denying the basic and regular refinery have greater conversion rates, but since the survival kit is available for small grids I can see having one on a deep heavy haul miner and it would be beneficial to put it to work refining stone enroute.
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1
Valenorious ●
5 years ago
That is exactly what I turned my moon spawn pod into. A 6-wheeler with 1 survival kit and 2 medium cargo modules. And surprisingly sturdy. I don't know why Keen chose this stone-ingot menu either. But it's easy to cue up ten-thousands of 500kg stone batches so it's semi-automatic. As soon as there is more than 500 stone in the conveyor system it will continue to count that down.
That is exactly what I turned my moon spawn pod into. A 6-wheeler with 1 survival kit and 2 medium cargo modules. And surprisingly sturdy. I don't know why Keen chose this stone-ingot menu either. But it's easy to cue up ten-thousands of 500kg stone batches so it's semi-automatic. As soon as there is more than 500 stone in the conveyor system it will continue to count that down.
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3
Mia R ●
5 years ago
I'm pretty sure Keen chose to make things that way because the Survival Kit acts like an Assembler, not a Refinery. It has to act like an Assembler to produce components for building basic blocks. To then mix in the Refinery's behavior of continuous ore conversion would be a bit tricky since the block would then have to act off of two sets of blueprints (one for behaving like an Assembler and another for behaving like a Refinery) on the same block and the same two slots of inventory. That then requires also modifying the code that filters what you can place into those inventories. And I'm sure the problems go on. The engine was designed with the concept in mind that a given block does only one thing. There are only a few exceptions to this (the Medical Bay, the Remote Control and now the Survival Kit are the only ones that I can think of) and those work by combining behaviors that don't compete.
I'm pretty sure Keen chose to make things that way because the Survival Kit acts like an Assembler, not a Refinery. It has to act like an Assembler to produce components for building basic blocks. To then mix in the Refinery's behavior of continuous ore conversion would be a bit tricky since the block would then have to act off of two sets of blueprints (one for behaving like an Assembler and another for behaving like a Refinery) on the same block and the same two slots of inventory. That then requires also modifying the code that filters what you can place into those inventories. And I'm sure the problems go on. The engine was designed with the concept in mind that a given block does only one thing. There are only a few exceptions to this (the Medical Bay, the Remote Control and now the Survival Kit are the only ones that I can think of) and those work by combining behaviors that don't compete.
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3
DranKof ●
5 years ago
Actually there are mods that have been doing this for years, it's pretty easy. If they really desire to separate the "refinery" aspect of it from the "assembler" aspect of it, they could just slice the block into thirds, have a survival refinery, survival assembler, survival medbay. They may as well since that would be 100% more customizable and cool for new respawn or exploratory ships.
Actually there are mods that have been doing this for years, it's pretty easy. If they really desire to separate the "refinery" aspect of it from the "assembler" aspect of it, they could just slice the block into thirds, have a survival refinery, survival assembler, survival medbay. They may as well since that would be 100% more customizable and cool for new respawn or exploratory ships.
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Mia R ●
5 years ago
I actually like the idea of splitting it into several blocks.
As for the mods, I didn't say that it couldn't be done. To do it, I imagine you'd take the code for the assembler and add a feature to it (maybe as a separate game logic component) that simply removed some amount of stone from one inventory slot and added some amount of the appropriate ingots to the other. But then to do it properly, you'd also have to update the filters for what could go in those slots, add the game logic for determining power usage and it'd probably be a good idea to make it so it could only act as either an Assembler or a Refinery and not both at the same time, which then brings up the question of which has priority, os maybe add a control to toggle that and... those are just the things that I can think of off the top of my head. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it's more work than a simple examination will reveal. I'm sure once you got into doing all that you'd encounter more problems as well (I work as a developer... believe me when I say that that is the way of things).
In fact, the easiest solution would be to make it so that the Survival Kit could repeat its queue like the regular assembler can. Then you queue up the stone placed appropriately along other items and you're done.
I actually like the idea of splitting it into several blocks.
As for the mods, I didn't say that it couldn't be done. To do it, I imagine you'd take the code for the assembler and add a feature to it (maybe as a separate game logic component) that simply removed some amount of stone from one inventory slot and added some amount of the appropriate ingots to the other. But then to do it properly, you'd also have to update the filters for what could go in those slots, add the game logic for determining power usage and it'd probably be a good idea to make it so it could only act as either an Assembler or a Refinery and not both at the same time, which then brings up the question of which has priority, os maybe add a control to toggle that and... those are just the things that I can think of off the top of my head. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it's more work than a simple examination will reveal. I'm sure once you got into doing all that you'd encounter more problems as well (I work as a developer... believe me when I say that that is the way of things).
In fact, the easiest solution would be to make it so that the Survival Kit could repeat its queue like the regular assembler can. Then you queue up the stone placed appropriately along other items and you're done.
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Robert Barbarino ●
5 years ago
There could be a simple button in the control panel of the survival kit that is “Stone to Ingot On/Off”
In my testing the survival kit will still pull stone in automatically but it’s small capacity means most of the recessing was still done by the Refineries.
The code for the varied inventory of refineries is already in place otherwise the survival kit wouldn’t function properly... stone goes into the inventory above the ingots output just like refineries and the assembler portion just draws from the output of the refinery inventory unlike the normal assemblers which use that upper portion for ingots and the lower for components.
There could be a simple button in the control panel of the survival kit that is “Stone to Ingot On/Off”
In my testing the survival kit will still pull stone in automatically but it’s small capacity means most of the recessing was still done by the Refineries.
The code for the varied inventory of refineries is already in place otherwise the survival kit wouldn’t function properly... stone goes into the inventory above the ingots output just like refineries and the assembler portion just draws from the output of the refinery inventory unlike the normal assemblers which use that upper portion for ingots and the lower for components.
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1
Geneticus0 ●
5 years ago
The issue is much deeper than that. The blueprint classes filter and restrict what can go into what inventory. Having assembler functionality at all means you can only place items into the block that are in or outputs of the recipes tied to it. The entire underlying structure of how production works would have to be rewritten from scratch which would break every mod that adds any items to the game.
The issue is much deeper than that. The blueprint classes filter and restrict what can go into what inventory. Having assembler functionality at all means you can only place items into the block that are in or outputs of the recipes tied to it. The entire underlying structure of how production works would have to be rewritten from scratch which would break every mod that adds any items to the game.
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Hypogriph Qc ●
5 years ago
If you combine both assembler and refinery in the survival block, will it start by refining stone or assembling components? That is a problem, priorities.
The survival block is perfect as it is and also pull in stone when there is "ingots" queued. (It should be called "Refine Stone") Changing any of its behavior is calling for clang or other unwanted entities.
If you answered both the question above, keep in mind the electricity consumption. 500-600 kw is a lot for a starter block.
If you combine both assembler and refinery in the survival block, will it start by refining stone or assembling components? That is a problem, priorities.
The survival block is perfect as it is and also pull in stone when there is "ingots" queued. (It should be called "Refine Stone") Changing any of its behavior is calling for clang or other unwanted entities.
If you answered both the question above, keep in mind the electricity consumption. 500-600 kw is a lot for a starter block.
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1
Menos Wansis ●
5 years ago
I like the survival kit behavior as it is. A simple shift-ctrl click will set production to 1000, which will be enough for a long time. Once you have the basic refinery you no longer want the survival kit to process stone, so you can simply disable it by removing the production item. If it would automatically process stone you would have to force it to stop doing that with a sorter, which is pointlessly complicated.
I like the survival kit behavior as it is. A simple shift-ctrl click will set production to 1000, which will be enough for a long time. Once you have the basic refinery you no longer want the survival kit to process stone, so you can simply disable it by removing the production item. If it would automatically process stone you would have to force it to stop doing that with a sorter, which is pointlessly complicated.
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1
Geneticus0 ●
5 years ago
What I find problematic about the survival kits is that the perspective of refining ore should be from the ore side as in “process this Ore” , not “make me these Ingots.” Anyone attempting to add custom ores that produce multiple ingots is going to have a hard time because it seems to be tied to the Ingot icon of one of a multiple output recipe instead of a defined ore icon.
The lack of being able to make gas bottles or process ice is also an issue.
What I find problematic about the survival kits is that the perspective of refining ore should be from the ore side as in “process this Ore” , not “make me these Ingots.” Anyone attempting to add custom ores that produce multiple ingots is going to have a hard time because it seems to be tied to the Ingot icon of one of a multiple output recipe instead of a defined ore icon.
The lack of being able to make gas bottles or process ice is also an issue.
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